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| Anonymous | Nuclear winter... about as true as global warming... | 3 | Sep 14 2012, 1:53 AM EDT by physicsguy66 | ||||
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Thread started: Nov 30 2006, 12:08 AM EST
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The nuclear winter theory holds even less weight than the global warming theory. How many nukes have been set off without having even a regional climate effect. A nuke doesn't kick up nearly enough dust/ash to cause nuclear winter as popularized in Terminator and The Matrix. As one poster noted; it would take every nuke in the world going off at once to even produce less than one degree of a global climate change.
On the other hand, the radiation poisoning is real and would be less than fun.
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| Anonymous | Whoa slow down there | 1 | Mar 28 2008, 2:23 PM EDT by Six-Actual | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 23 2006, 9:45 AM EST
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OK Lets start basic here.
The smaller a device is the less it damages everything. Anyone disagree? No? Good Now fall out is going to happen with any device of this class. How much depends on size. How bad depends on how close to the ground. And what kind of ground. Anyone that tells you that 10 20KT bombs will kick off a "Nuclear Winter" is completely ignorant of what a Nuclear Winter is let alone what it would take to create one. The bomb that was dropped on the bikini islands had more explosive force then all of these bombs combined. Why did we not have a "Nuclear Winter" then? Get over it! Yes fallout can be dangerous, and yes it would suck to be in the range of ANY fallout. But the end of the world? Heck no. Even if you were in a fallout zone you would have to ride it out say two months tops and then it would be safe to get out of the area. The radiation levels would have subsided to a less then lethal level by then. BTW those numbers are based on crowd pleasers of 20MT not tactical nukes. It is entirely possible that tactical nukes would not even be noticed on the larger scale of things. Have you ever been to a location where a nuke has gone off? I have. I stood outside and walked all around it. And when I got back my dosimeter registered NOTHING. Now I grant you that it was the first atomic blast ever but less then 60 years later all effects are gone. To much public education.
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| Anonymous | Nuclear Bomb Fallout: The essentials... | 1 | Mar 25 2008, 7:55 PM EDT by carmeniris | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 8 2006, 6:53 AM EST
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Basically, you have so many variables when it comes to radioactive exposure, that it is usually easier to follow the basic rules.
ALARA. This acronym is used in the Nuclear industry to represent the following: "As Low As Reasonably Achievable" This means that there is no "Safe" level of radiation. The less you get, the better your chances that you will not have undesiirable effects. then, you have: Time, Distance and Shielding Time: Limit the amount of time near or around radioactive materials Distance: Each time your double the distance from a radioactive source, you drop your expsure down to only 1/4 of original exposure. Shielding: Dense materials such as lead or tungsten can reduce exposure to most radiation. Alpha and Beta particles can be shielded with a sheet of paper to a piece of aluminum foil. Note, some shielding can actually increase your exposure. ok, thats enough from me.
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| Anonymous | From a scientist (page: 1 2 3) | 44 | Aug 27 2007, 3:16 PM EDT by genpatton43 | ||||
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Thread started: Nov 30 2006, 4:15 AM EST
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The theory of "Nuclear Winter" was discredited years ago. The original TTAPS study used a simulation so shockingly simplistic (I can briefly post the details if anyone cares) that any increase in realism always resulted in no "Nuclear Winter." Nevertheless, the US government went to great expense to double-check via a series of experiments (which I can also describe if you wish).
By the way, "Nuclear Winter" was supposed to be caused by soot from enormous fires set by detonating nukes, not by dust and/or ash thrown up by said nukes, as some here have mis-remembered. Also, the "Nuclear Winter" theory was created as an argument in favor of nuclear disarmament, not as "evidence of MAD being a viable deterent," as someone posted here. FYI: with the coming of MIRVs, most warhead yields were reduced to 500 kilotons or less, larger-yield weapons being reserved for "hard" targets such as missile silos. The targets reported hit so far in the TV program do not match any plausible ballistic missile target set, and the only device described so far (with a 20 kiloton yield, equivalent to Hiroshima) was being smuggled into New York City by a few men in a truck, implying that the strikes are the work of small ground teams. Diminishing returns mean that little significant additional damage would result from much larger yields, while such weapons would be much more difficult to conceal and transport, so megaton-plus yields seem implausible when discussing Jericho. Also please note that a single surface burst of even megaton-plus yield would not be enough to destroy any one of most of the cities mentioned as struck in the TV show. And a 20 kiloton burst would not even destroy Manhattan, much less all of NYC. Finally, the evidence is in on Global Warming. It is real, and humans are (at least in significant part) causing it. The last three studies, released not long ago, ended any real doubts. I hope you all find these facts useful in enjoying Jericho.
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| Anonymous | Nuclear facts (page: 1 2 3 4 5 ... last page) | 107 | Aug 27 2007, 2:59 PM EDT by genpatton43 | ||||
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Thread started: Nov 29 2006, 9:17 PM EST
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I am sorry, but no way would the sun and moon and the stars just keep on shining! With multiple nuclear blasts.in various locations there would be a "nuclear winter". In other words, nothing would keep on shining. It would always be dark or close to it and it would get very, very, very cold. So, although I love this show, I know how completely unrealistic it is. People, don't ever think that it would be this easy to survive. Only the cockroach would definitely survive, so perhaps they are what is really "made in God's image", LOL!!!
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| savagesteve13 | The 50 megaton test didn not produce nuclear winter because... | 0 | Jul 19 2007, 3:52 PM EDT by savagesteve13 | ||||
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Thread started: Jul 19 2007, 3:52 PM EDT
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For one thing, the 50 megaton Tsar bomba was dropped at Novaya Zemlya near the arctic circle, and it was done at 8000+ feet, an airburst over frozen land. Even the soviets knew the possibility of such a bomb tossing up gigantic amounts of fallout, so they did a high altitude airburst in an area where winds wouldn't carry fallout down to populated areas. Even so, the fireball reached the ground and killed a few people. What was in their favor was the 97% efficiency of the weapon which reduced fallout drastically and the lead tamper that cut the yield in half, but also cut the fallout in half too.
The US Military conducted tests that indicated the proper height for an airburst is about 750 feet, which creates a distorted pressure wave that moves large objects and destroys them by dragging them hundreds of feet. It also creates a large mix of fallout. The US has always classified its nuke yield effectiveness in terms of "Rads" rather than blast. They consider the lethality of the bomb in terms of radiation output rather than blast , shock or heat. |
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| savagesteve13 | Nuclear Winter is real. | 0 | Jul 19 2007, 3:45 PM EDT by savagesteve13 | ||||
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Thread started: Jul 19 2007, 3:45 PM EDT
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For a limited "exchange" its unlikely that it could happen, but with a massive nuclear exchange nuclear winter is inevitable. Its already been documented numerous times that a single volcanic eruption can have global effects. Back when Mt. St. Helens erupted, I found considerable amounts of dust/sand on my car and by the curbs and I live nearly 2000 miles away. We also had unexpectedly cool days, and the sun was "bluish" from all the dust in the air. If one eruption can do that, imagine a few thousand thermonuclear groundbursts tossing up cubic miles of dirt and dust into the sky. large bursts can top 100,000 feet in seconds.
Earth will of course survive, it always does, but we won't do so hot. |
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| Anonymous | boomsday | 0 | May 11 2007, 12:22 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: May 11 2007, 12:22 AM EDT
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cold war styal nuke winter wood comm about do to thausands of bombs going off in a window of a few hours multipul warheads hiting cities US EUROP GB RUSIA WARSAW BLOC CHINA simultaniusly
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| Pravritti | Nuclear Winter | 1 | Mar 31 2007, 10:21 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 13 2007, 11:41 AM EDT
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Nuclear Winter, discredited or criticized, two different things...
With the all the climate change research someone decided to plug in your tax dollars to run the Nuclear Winter senario. Robock, Alan, Luke Oman, and Georgiy L. Stenchikov, 2006: Nuclear winter revisited with a modern climate model and current nuclear arsenals: Still catastrophic consequences. Submitted to J. Geophys. Res., doi:2006JD008235. http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/nw4.pdf The fun thing here is that small regional exchanges were also looked at. Doesn't take much to cause problems. 100 15 kiloton bombs, is small compared to Superpower forces. They also looked at the kinds of smoke. One produced by a weapon is different from our buddy St. Helens. But this is science in a peer reviewed journal. Not the easy read, and not the EMP folks of missle defense. A good critic, should have his or her own paper...
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| MendedAxe | Agreement with Nuclear Facts | 14 | Mar 31 2007, 10:18 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 1 2006, 5:04 AM EST
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There would be so much debris in the atmosphere that nuclear winter would be almost immediate. Does anybody here remember the movie "The Day After?" That movie was set in Kansas, and it didn't look too well at the end of that, and it was based on as much factual information as was available at the time. There are bombs that can look like and leave the same amount of damage ( non-nuclear hydrogen bomb, or just a really big non-nuclear bomb). Not to say they exist, but the possibility is there.
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| Anonymous | 21 bomb sites | 0 | Mar 14 2007, 10:00 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 14 2007, 10:00 AM EDT
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The map found at the trading post showed 21 bomb targets.
As noted by others, these were only 20kt bombs. Even all put together, you still don't reach the Megaton range that modern weapons are capable of. The largest nuclear explosion was in the 50 Mt range, and no nuclear winter then either. FYI, fallout isn't as serious a threat either. In our tests in the pacific, the biggest danger zone is only within a dozen miles or so of the blast. Those out to a hundred or so miles will probably have increased cancer risk, but aren't going to drop dead. |
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| echuir | No nuclear winter | 4 | Feb 21 2007, 6:15 PM EST by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 30 2006, 1:23 PM EST
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I do not see a nuclear winter in Jerico's future as many current theories say that there will not be one. However I do see the very real threat of famine from lack of food and problems with water shortages. With the food drop that Jerico recieved they have a small influx of food but they are not rationing it. I can see an upcomming episode where people who rationed have food but the ones who didn't are starving and start trying to take other peoples food.
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| Anonymous | nuclear winter | 0 | Feb 4 2007, 3:47 AM EST by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Feb 4 2007, 3:47 AM EST
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This theory was proven false years ago. After attending the U.S.Army's CBR school(chemical-biological-radiological) Nuclear war does not hold the terror for me as it did in the past.It would still be awful but not the "END OF THE WORLD" as most poeple think!! The U.S has set off over 1000 nuclear test in side our borders since 1947.
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| Anonymous | nuclear particles being heavier than water | 0 | Jan 26 2007, 10:45 PM EST by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Jan 26 2007, 10:45 PM EST
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So the article says that putting nuclear waste in the salt water for disposal has been considered. What happens when all those heavy particles are hanging around on the bottom? Would they move with tides, would they move with upheavals of the ocean floor, would they travel along the chasms all over the globe, would they change the underwater lifeforms in ways we could not know for decades, maybe even centuries?
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| scottandkaren | Nuclear Winter | 0 | Dec 30 2006, 8:17 AM EST by scottandkaren | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 30 2006, 8:17 AM EST
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You are correct that if three was a nuclear winter you would not have a show ... the British movie threads made during the last large nuclear scare during the 80's demonstrated the effects of nuclear winter. I wrote on another page that nuclear winter is not bad science rather like much science it was placed into the policy, political realm actually "The theory of nuclear winter (that many nuclear explosions would create a long-lasting dust cloud that would block sunlight and eventually kill nearly all life on Earth) became widely accepted in the mid-1980s" (Amacher, Peter Bulletin of the Atomic ScientistsMay/June 2003 Vol 59 pp. 34-37, 40-43). Even in the tests conducted at the Bikini atoll:" the government's wild underestimates of the likely damage from a nuclear exchange. Most famously, Ralph Lapp published data from the 1954 Bikini atoll tests, showing fallout in a huge ellipse extending downwind from ground zero. The government had estimated a small, circular area of fallout. Lapp forced them to acknowledge their error (Amacher, Peter Bulletin of the Atomic ScientistsMay/June 2003 Vol 59 pp. 34-37, 40-43).
There have been effects of testing on human beings in New Mexico (for example) the downwinders suffer much higher rates of cancer than the general population. Often funding on these studies was stopped early again because science was not done for science's sake but it became something politicized ... a reasonable net source is: http://www.downwinders.org/ ... Ideology cannot subsitute for science and should not ... the effects of nuclear weapons cannot and ought not be minimized E |
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| Rangertech724 | Nuclear Winter post | 0 | Dec 22 2006, 10:08 AM EST by Rangertech724 | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 22 2006, 10:08 AM EST
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Every one seems to be up in arms about the size of the bombs. Here is some Physics for you. A 30 KT (Kiloton) bomb, which is larger than the ones that have been mentioned in the show, would have a blast zone about 1 mile in circumfrence. These types of weapons are classified as tatical weapons. They have a very limited distruction zone and the fall-out effect of even a ground burst are minimal when compared to the national inventory of ICBM's. A 20 MT (Megaton) bomb on the other hand has on the order of 600 times the distructive force of a 30 KT bomb. The blast zone for this type of weapon is 8 miles from ground zero. This weapon would have a much larger ammount of fall-out associated with it and of course an increase in magnitude of each of the radioactive isotopes. The KT bombs are on the line of what was exploded in Japan during WWII. Expectations would be a 50% death rate with in 20 miles of the initial blast zone with in 5 years as borne out in real life. The problem that faces the writers in the show is that to cause the ammount of distruction depicted in the show in Denver would require a bomb on the order of a 100MT or larger. These types of weapons are where the real consern for a nuclear winter comes from due to the mass of the debris that is sucked up into the fire ball. This is only a T.V. show people, some things have to just be accepted and move on for the plot to continue, otherwise the writers would need to do many years of research just to make the science of it all work correctly. Enjoy the story line and dont worry about the technical preciseness of the bombs, EMP, etc. It is a very interesting plot and story.
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| jamessavik | Nuclear Winter? | 0 | Dec 16 2006, 4:24 AM EST by jamessavik | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 16 2006, 4:24 AM EST
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A lot of factors influence wether or not nuclear winter is going to be a big problem. It really depends on how many nukes went off and how big they were. Were they air-bursts or did they explode on the ground? [This isn't completely clear as yet.]
Air-bursts don't create nearly as much fallout. If the nukes were around 100 kilotons and limited to the big cities of the US, the "nuclear winter" effects may not be as pronounced. That doesn't mean that radiation won't be a serious problem for many years to come. |
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| Kushbon | Movie Comparisons | 0 | Dec 15 2006, 11:41 AM EST by Kushbon | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 15 2006, 11:41 AM EST
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I have seen several suggestions for "the day after" movie, and while this was good and entertaining, the best nuclear aftermath movie is "Testament". This seemed so realistic, it scared me to death. No bunches of scenes of the actual blast, only a bright light and the realization of what happened. This also takes place in a small town community, and how the people survive, (and those that don't) in the aftermath of nuclear fallout is how I imagine life will be like and how I had hoped Jericho would direct to. Testament is not an uplifting movie, and I think a series like Jericho needs more light hearted and hopeful moments, but I would like to see the town do more than waste fuel and hang out in the bar.
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| indecisive.bunny | so what were the "hits"? | 0 | Dec 13 2006, 4:58 PM EST by indecisive.bunny | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 13 2006, 4:58 PM EST
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If the blasts were not caused by nuclear bombs, what exactly does everyone think they were? Does anyone have an educated guess? My real mother was into this *%#$, but I have no idea why they would be worried about the rain if the blasts werent nuclear. Please dont think Im crazyk but could someone help me out here?????????
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| JudyConklin | Removing topsoil | 2 | Dec 11 2006, 8:00 AM EST by JudyConklin | ||||
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Thread started: Dec 10 2006, 4:12 PM EST
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Remember all that corn they were about to harvest that was infested and they needed Gracie's pesticides? Wasn't that grown without ever removing the top 12 inches of topsoil.
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