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Location: What We Know
Discussion: What we Know
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 SpaceTrucker |
What we Know
Jan 24 2008, 2:45 PM EST I seen where at least 4 well known military bases weren't hit, which tells me that there is still a US military somewhere too. 1. Norfolk was not hit, worlds largest military bases are there along with NATO headquarters. 2. Oak RIdge, home of the nuclear plants untouched. 3. Military bases along the South East Coast also untouched as was NASA. 4. With NORAD underground and protected, it would have been unphased and could have easily have launched our nukes from it. 5. Where were the nukes housed in Kansas at when the rest went off? 6. You can't see Denver from Jericho, sorry but, they didn't see nukes blowing there either. 7. The Migs in the beginning of the series must've come from either China or North Korea, but since some nukes were sent eastwards as well, I'd have to also say that possibly the middle east, (I'm thinking either one of the two places mentioned elsewhere in the series that Jake visited,) was involved. If it were Russia they would have went North. 8. Let's also not forget that NY and Maryland is also okay so there's two more military bases at least, not to mention the stealth bases, and where are they at? We've not seen the first one. 9. Okay the DC area was wiped out, either the President or Vice is still alive contrary to reports as neither is in the same location at the same time and definitely not at the time the bombs went off at 6 pm at night on the east coast. 10. With Norfolk not hit, the fourth in line would be an Admiral or General and they are all at NATO in Norfolk or one of the other bases around the US. 11. Should it be possible that the Govt leaders were gone, the US would be automatically under military rule, where's the towns militia? 12. With Kansas powered by Nuke plants, I can't believe they stay without power as long as they have. I can go on and on with problems with the story so far. 7 out of 22 found this valuable. Do you? |
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rkj_br rkj_br |
RE: What we Know
Jan 24 2008, 8:51 PM EST The Tom Tooman ARG has many references to "Thunder Mountain", which might be NORAD. Whatever "Thunder Mountain" was, have been destroyed, so if it's NOARD, it's gone. Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 24 2008, 9:10 PM EST It would take much more than a 20 kiloton nuclear bomb to get rid of NORAD, sorry. Do you find this valuable? |
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rkj_br rkj_br |
RE: What we Know
Jan 24 2008, 11:55 PM EST "It would take much more than a 20 kiloton nuclear bomb to get rid of NORAD, sorry."A 20kt bomb inside NORAD main rooms could easily wipe it out... withstanding nuclear attack from the outside is very different that resisting to terrorism. But I don't think that if Thunder Mountain is NORAD, NEADS or something of that sort, it has beeen wiped out by the same nuclear device used on large populated cities. Whatever hit them, was either something very big (like Tridents, Minutemans, SS-20s and so forth) or an inside job. We'll probably have to wait for the ARG developments during the season to sort this out. Do you find this valuable? |
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geoturtle geoturtle |
RE: What we Know
Jan 25 2008, 1:29 AM EST Do we know the Migs were heading east? They were heading to the right in the view, but was the view of the scene facing north? I don't remember so I'll have to rewatch it. But I can't recall a direction indicated by the sun since it was night time, so you'd have to determine direction of the view by landmarks in the town. I'm not sure on the distance to Jericho from Denver, but with just Pythagorean's theorem you should be able to determine what distance the plume would need to be to see it from Jericho. A 15 megaton hydrogen bomb tested in 1954 had a 4.8 km diameter fireball associated with it, and had a plume stem column of 25 miles high. Don't forget also Denver's elevation, which is 1 mile high. Kansas is not sea level but it's certainly lower than that. We assume that this bomb was hydrogen, right? I believe Hawkins said something like that in episode 2 or 3 with the fallout discussion. But later they talked about the plutonium. A plutonium bomb was used in WWII on Nagasaki, which had a smaller size plume, I think. I'd have to look it up. But one thing to keep in mind is... in 50 years since the famous test of the H-bomb, redesigns and different weight or amounts of bombs (could be several at one site) might create a bigger plume which could maybe be visible in Jericho. But on the other hand, I think Jericho is ~400 miles from Denver. However if the plume extended 25 miles or more, that's pretty substantial but not enough to see from Denver... Quick estimation using the distance and a preferred view angle of say, 10* on the horizon, you'd want a plume to reach 50-75 miles in Denver. If someone else could check my math, that would be great. I am running out of space here & I didn't use calculators so it's all a rough estimate. But anyway... I think you're right, a standard H-bomb from 1950s wouldn't be seen in Jericho, but maybe one made in 2000s would be visible. Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 25 2008, 2:59 AM EST Doesn't matter how high the plumes were, you still cannot see Denver's sky from Jericho, due to the mountains between them as well as the earths curvature. Anything more than 50 miles away, even on the flattest of land would be stretching it. Granted Denver is over a mile high, there are mountains higher and in between them. Were it possible to see Denver in the distance you'd also see the stadium which is at Denvers highest point, as well as other large buildings in Denver with a pair of binoculars in the scenes where they showed the bombs going off. Best case scenario of NORAD getting destroyed would be if "bunker busters" were dropped into it, then it would still take dozens at least to penetrate the mountain it's under. I'm not too sure that those were bombs anyways, maybe markers for the bombs to hit after activation, I could believe. If they were as "hot" as was lead to believe, then when Hawkins opened the case for the bomb, he and everyone in the room would have been poisoned as soon as he cracked the top. Also a storm traveling over 450 miles in about 2 hours? That must have had some serious winds behind it to make that distance too. I could have believed 4 hours but not 2, sorry. Those bombs that went off around Jericho about 10-15 miles out would have killed everyone in the town with their fallout even sooner. Having been a truck driver and travelled through Kansas to Denver, I can safely say that your not going to see the Denver skyline from there, at best you may see an eerie red glow against a clouded sky, (assuming there was clouds in the sky,) in the distance, even then at over 400 miles out, that's not likely either. Your definitely aren't going to see the "Balloon" of the plume at that distance and even if you did, it would have been much wider than it was depicted as being. Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 25 2008, 3:06 AM EST Doesn't matter how high the plumes were, you still cannot see Denver's sky from Jericho, due to the mountains between them as well as the earths curvature. Anything more than 50 miles away, even on the flattest of land would be stretching it. Granted Denver is over a mile high, there are mountains higher and in between them. Were it possible to see Denver in the distance you'd also see the stadium which is at Denvers highest point, as well as other large buildings in Denver with a pair of binoculars in the scenes where they showed the bombs going off. Best case scenario of NORAD getting destroyed would be if "bunker busters" were dropped into it, then it would still take dozens at least to penetrate the mountain it's under. I'm not too sure that those were bombs anyways, maybe markers for the bombs to hit after activation, I could believe. If they were as "hot" as was lead to believe, then when Hawkins opened the case for the bomb, he and everyone in the room would have been poisoned as soon as he cracked the top. Also a storm traveling over 450 miles in about 2 hours? That must have had some serious winds behind it to make that distance too. I could have believed 4 hours but not 2, sorry. Those bombs that went off around Jericho about 10-15 miles out would have killed everyone in the town with their fallout even sooner. Having been a truck driver and travelled through Kansas to Denver, I can safely say that your not going to see the Denver skyline from there, at best you may see an eerie red glow against a clouded sky, (assuming there was clouds in the sky,) in the distance, even then at over 400 miles out, that's not likely either. Your definitely aren't going to see the "tree stalk" of the plume at that distance and even if you did, it would have been much wider than it was depicted as being. Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 25 2008, 3:11 AM EST I hate not having an "edit" button... Thunder Mountain is in Nevada, if memory serves it's an Indian Reservation, why anyone would attack that is beyond me... Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 25 2008, 3:12 AM EST I hate not having an "edit" button... Thunder Mountain is in Nevada, if memory serves it's an Indian Reservation, why anyone would attack that is beyond me... Thunder Mountain, Nevada: http://www.thundermountainmonument.com/Recent2.jpg Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 25 2008, 3:44 AM EST I hate not having an "edit" button... Where this "fictional" Jericho was shot at, is in "North Lawrence", Kansas, "567 mi – about 8 hours 15 mins" from Denver, CO according to Google Maps. Which is about 40 miles from Kansas City, Kansas. Oakley, Kansas may make some sense as to where it's supposed to be, but even then it's "255 mi – about 3 hours 43 mins" out of Denver. Gove County, Kansas where Jericho used to be, is "284 mi – about 4 hours 7 mins" from Denver. here's a shot I did of Gove to Denver using Google earth, note how that the elevation your looking towards Denver at is almost 51000 ft, even then through the haze you still can't see the placemarker for Denver on the map, let alone Denver from there. http://ispacetrucker.homeip.net/iSpaceTrucker/media/Gove2Denver.jpg Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 25 2008, 6:43 AM EST The map under the section "Written on the far bottom of the board with the US map:" shows Jericho as being where Colby, KS is located. The color "Google Map" just above it shows Jericho as being southwest of Gove County, Kansas, which of these is right? My vote is going towards the Gove, Kansas area, since "Jericho" used to be a town in Gove County at one time. Problem is there's various confusing descriptions as to the actual location of "Jericho" throughout the season. (Also the confusion as to which police/sheriffs dept that Hawkins was part of in the pilot, he mentioned two different ones to two different people.) The closest to the location spotted on the color map, is still outside of Gove County. From Wikipedia: There was an actual location in Kansas named "Jericho". It was a post office in Larabee Township, Kansas in Gove County, and folded in 1923. Oakley is the closest community that matches the fictional Jericho's apparent location, and some route numbers from the "official" CBS map of Jericho match, but Oakley is in Logan County. There are no salt mines anywhere near that side of the state, if there are mines there at all it would have to be granite for gravel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho,_Kansas_(fictional_town) Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 25 2008, 7:12 AM EST Since Jake was supposed to do something in Afghanistan/Pakistan, I would think it could well be a possibility that they were involved with these attacks some how. Most likely Pakistan since we're currently in Afghanistan and there is trouble in Pakistan right now. With Osama still missing and possibly in lower Western China/upper Western Pakistan, he easily could have made a deal with the Chinese for the "packages". China could well have been the ones who sent the Migs over too, although it could've been the Germans being our only Allies with Migs that I'm aware of, then why would be chasing them too? CDC (Center for Disease Control) was in Atlanta too... Anyone else notice that the entire I-75 and I-40 corridor is completely left alone, with the exception of Atlanta and Detroit?? Though Detroit houses the largest of the American motor companies, it's by far the only vehicle plants as there are several around Knoxville, TN just outside of Oak Ridge, which wasn't targeted at all. Why didn't Oak Ridge get hit? Taking out just one of those reactors there would have set off the other 7+ in the area not to mention the nuke plants, and wiped out ALL of Knoxville and surrounding areas, taking I-75 and I-40 with it. Noone else in Jericho has a cache of weapons? That's hard to believe, why aren't they making more munitions, they didn't use up all their dynamite did they? The more I hear about Jakes past, I believe that the people Jake was working for, (and supposed to do a "final job" for are responsible some how but, they had very bad planning on their parts if they are. Do you find this valuable? |
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rkj_br rkj_br |
RE: What we Know
Jan 25 2008, 8:44 AM EST "I hate not having an "edit" button...Failure to comply with the new Cheyenne/ASA government, perhaps ? Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 26 2008, 3:41 PM EST With Ole man Green dead, I can also forsee some fighting between the brothers after they get done TCB, over his death and his final words. Having a brother myself and knowing how much we fight between us, over petty things, something like that would have us fighting between us. Of course we're gonna take care of business first but, after all is said and done, there will be at least words between us, if not an out and out physical fight over it. Being the older of the two, I'd have to say it would be my younger brother that starts the fight but, it would be me that ended it. There would still be animosity between us even after the fight but, we'd still have strong feelings that couldn't go away. With things the way they are on the show, we'd go back to giving people the perception things are okay between us after the fight but, they really wouldn't be. Before it's all over though, one of us would leave town and not return for a very long time, the other to stay behind to take care of our mother, that is should both of us survive. In this case, I can see Jake staying behind and his brother leaving, since he wants to do something else with his life, and Jake already having done his. Besides the town's gonna need a real leader to keep them together, with Jakes military background, he's that person. Do you find this valuable? |
 Sandbagger |
RE: What we Know
Jan 26 2008, 9:17 PM EST "The Tom Tooman ARG has many references to "Thunder Mountain", which might be NORAD. Whatever "Thunder Mountain" was, have been destroyed, so if it's NOARD, it's gone. "If youever read the novel "Seven days in May" ,or saw the movie, there is a "Thunder Mountain" reference. Thier Thunder mountain is the code name for the Presidents underground bunker. This is a direct reference to the real site, known as "Mount Weather" located in the Virginia mountains. Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 26 2008, 10:45 PM EST That so called bunker is in the mountains of West Virginia and it's no longer usable as such anymore. They did a whole thing on TV about it a while back. That's not to say there's not something like that in the US still, just not that one, as it's currently in private hands in the public sector. And if you look on those maps, nowhere in either state has been hit. Do you find this valuable? |
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SpaceTrucker |
RE: What we Know
Jan 27 2008, 12:24 AM EST Here's something else noone's touched on, Hawkins' bomb is supposed to be the last nuke, yet there was one that was "stopped" in NYC, where's that one at? Who's in possession of it? With all the nukes in our country his is by far the last of the nukes by the way. There are plenty more of them in secured places throughout the country. His may be the last one that's not secured though, at least that we're aware of in this show. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Sandbagger |
RE: What we Know
Jan 27 2008, 10:08 AM EST "That so called bunker is in the mountains of West Virginia and it's no longer usable as such anymore. They did a whole thing on TV about it a while back. That's not to say there's not something like that in the US still, just not that one, as it's currently in private hands in the public sector. And if you look on those maps, nowhere in either state has been hit."Your thinking of the Congressional Bunker in White Sulpher Springs, W V.built underneith a Hotel.Due to a magazine article, that bunker was exposed, and closed down. Mt. Weather is still operational, not to far from Mt. Weather is Raven Rock, a bunker complex built as a replacement Pentagon. These are just the complexex that are known about. Do you find this valuable? |
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Sandbagger |
RE: What we Know
Jan 27 2008, 10:13 AM EST "Here's something else noone's touched on, Hawkins' bomb is supposed to be the last nuke, yet there was one that was "stopped" in NYC, where's that one at? Who's in possession of it? With all the nukes in our country his is by far the last of the nukes by the way. There are plenty more of them in secured places throughout the country. His may be the last one that's not secured though, at least that we're aware of in this show."Now that you mention it, how come that fact wasn't mentioned in the video briefing during "Why We Fight". Valenti seems more concerned with the Jericoh bomb, and doesn't contend with the NYC bomb. Unless of course, the NYC bomb is already back in possession of the conspirators, who will spin thier version of events.Putting it all together, Hawkins will have to be eliminated to make the Terrorist story plausable. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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rkj_br rkj_br |
RE: What we Know
Jan 28 2008, 5:59 PM EST "Now that you mention it, how come that fact wasn't mentioned in the video briefing during "Why We Fight". Valenti seems more concerned with the Jericoh bomb, and doesn't contend with the NYC bomb. Unless of course, the NYC bomb is already back in possession of the conspirators, who will spin thier version of events.Putting it all together, Hawkins will have to be eliminated to make the Terrorist story plausable."The NYC bomb may even be a fake. When Hawkins tipped off the authorities, they had opportunity to change the load. For instance, to nuclear material that actually came from North Korea... it's much easier to do forensics on a non-detonated bomb. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |