Location: United States Government

Discussion: Edit of previous post--just woke up!

Keyword tags: None

Watch

Anonymous  (Get credit for your thread)


JudyConklin
JudyConklin
Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 10 2006, 8:59 AM EST
Yeah, but you would be ruling a dungheap. Right now, we are the reigning power of the world. Like they told me in polysci class, those in power will do everything possible to REMAIN in power. The official US government, like all bureaucracies, will preserve itself and the jobs of those working for it FIRST. Remember, every government agency is not some dark entity with a singular, evil mind, it's comprised of government employees. Their job: keep the taxes coming so they can pay their mortgages and send their kids to college. I can see racist, off-the-hook adherents participating in a plot but they would be participating as individuals. The government has no motive to commit hari-kari on itself. It would take YEARS to reestablish any kind of federal or state oversight over towns like Jericho. They would be isolated, self-contained entitiies UNABLE to be policed. This means that existing law might or MIGHT NOT remain in place. What is to prevent an isolated community from ruling and policing itself in any way it chose, including shooting outsiders and other forms of vigilante justice designed to preserve the property rights of those with guns? In all likelihood, the monetary system would go down, too. How would the government collect taxes? Bushels of corn?
5  out of 7 found this valuable. Do you?    
PostalGale
PostalGale
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 15 2006, 2:53 AM EST
It is all about Lords and Serfs. Taxes and corporate profits will go on regardless. Right now -- in real life, the Supreme Court is deciding whether or not individual citizens have the right to keep and bear arms or if the fourth ammendment only applies to state militias. Since there is a paper trail on legally obtained guns, the feds know who has guns and where they are. Thanks to the Patriot Act, laws that prevented unlawful searches and seizures are dead, so the feds can come into your home and take whatever they want any time they choose. The NSA has one job only -- to know where you are and what you are doing. They would know EVERYTHING about EVERYBODY in Jericho or anywhere else. They know about all of us -- Right now. Executive orders are already on the books enabling martial law to be declared for any reason at all and another "attack" would be the perfect excuse. All of those military bases that the gov closed over the past six years have been or are being refurbished as detention centers. Plus, Haliburton has that 365 million dollar detention center that they are building for the feds in Texas. The so-called torture bill that was signed into law recently enables the gov to declare any US citizen an enemy combatant, strip him of his citizenship and detain him forever without lawyer or trial. This does not apply only to terrorists. Political disendents are included. This stuff is for real and it is no joke. Throw yourself a little Google Party if you don't believe me. Those willing and able to work will be clothed, fed and sheltered. The products of their labor will be sold and the profits retained by the Lords. Those unable to work for the Lords will be exterminated. Can you say "New World Order"? A handful of people already run the world. The Serfs have never been able to overcome the Lords. History repeats itself and nothing changes because we'd rather sleep. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 15 2006, 7:27 AM EST
"It is all about Lords and Serfs. Taxes and corporate profits will go on regardless. Right now -- in real life, the Supreme Court is deciding whether or not individual citizens have the right to keep and bear arms or if the fourth ammendment only applies to state militias. Since there is a paper trail on legally obtained guns, the feds know who has guns and where they are. Thanks to the Patriot Act, laws that prevented unlawful searches and seizures are dead, so the feds can come into your home and take whatever they want any time they choose. The NSA has one job only -- to know where you are and what you are doing. They would know EVERYTHING about EVERYBODY in Jericho or anywhere else. They know about all of us -- Right now. Executive orders are already on the books enabling martial law to be declared for any reason at all and another "attack" would be the perfect excuse. All of those military bases that the gov closed over the past six years have been or are being refurbished as detention centers. Plus, Haliburton has that 365 million dollar detention center that they are building for the feds in Texas. The so-called torture bill that was signed into law recently enables the gov to declare any US citizen an enemy combatant, strip him of his citizenship and detain him forever without lawyer or trial. This does not apply only to terrorists. Political disendents are included. This stuff is for real and it is no joke. Throw yourself a little Google Party if you don't believe me. Those willing and able to work will be clothed, fed and sheltered. The products of their labor will be sold and the profits retained by the Lords. Those unable to work for the Lords will be exterminated. Can you say "New World Order"? A handful of people already run the world. The Serfs have never been able to overcome the Lords. History repeats itself and nothing changes because we'd rather sleep."
Dear PostalGale,
You are oh, so right about everything! We may see some of this change in January when the Dems take over, thank God! The so-called torture bill cannot affect citizens BORN HERE, thank goodness. That's what I have been saying--we are in actuality run by an oligarch--or the oilygarchy, as some would have it! I put a post on here the other day in response to someone who said the Republicans were, in reality, 1940's Dems and today's Dems were socialists, wanting to take the wealth of others and redistribute it. I countered by reminding the poster that all our manufacturing jobs and many other jobs, such as call-center representative, are flooding to the third world. If the powers that be ALLOW multinationals to export our jobs, is being out of work the fault of the jobless?
Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 15 2006, 9:47 AM EST
The operative word is oligarchy--I hit the "y" but it didn't register. For a brief time in this country--the post-WWII generation--the middle class flourished. Guys with high school educations like my late father could rise through the union ranks in places like Ma Bell, become management, own their own homes, and send their kids to college. They were pretty much guaranteed 40 years and a watch. Corporations no longer offer security or guaranteed retirement. The multinational oligarchy exports our jobs unchecked. In the long run, this is obviously not good for America or Americans, but each individual profiteer company doesn't care. Our deficit is in the trillions, thanks to Bush, and China holds most of the notes. Every cloud has a silver lining, and China would not want to lose our Nike factories OR our debt repayment, so I think we can count them out in a big way as the Jericho culprits! Do you find this valuable?    

Anonymous
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 2:45 AM EST
I wouldn't count China out so fast. Our dependence on them right now is scarey. We just sent a delegation over there to beg them to re-valuate their currency to help ours look better and basically they just laughed at us. China and Russia often participate in war games together playing the roles of allies against us. With Russia considering abandoning democracy and returning to a more refined communism than they had under the old Soviet Union; and with their biggest ally being communist China, I think that there is reason to be concerned. China is our creditor and our country -- including government owned land -- is standing as the collateral. Do you know that over 70 percent of the real estate in this country is "owned" by the federal government? Scarey, indeed. While I'm not sure just how China will figure into the plot on Jericho, I do think that China is a bigger threat to us and our economy than we give them credit for. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 6:12 AM EST
"I wouldn't count China out so fast. Our dependence on them right now is scarey. We just sent a delegation over there to beg them to re-valuate their currency to help ours look better and basically they just laughed at us. China and Russia often participate in war games together playing the roles of allies against us. With Russia considering abandoning democracy and returning to a more refined communism than they had under the old Soviet Union; and with their biggest ally being communist China, I think that there is reason to be concerned. China is our creditor and our country -- including government owned land -- is standing as the collateral. Do you know that over 70 percent of the real estate in this country is "owned" by the federal government? Scarey, indeed. While I'm not sure just how China will figure into the plot on Jericho, I do think that China is a bigger threat to us and our economy than we give them credit for."
Yeah. When you evaluate the nuclear threat to the U.S., you are forced to look at ideological hatred. The Islamofascists hate us big-time--so does North Korea. The old U.S.S.R. sure did--I'm old enough to remember Kruschev banging his shoe on the table at the U.N., promising to bury us. My personal biggest fear is all the "loose" nuclear weaponry in Russia and the dishonest bureaucrats willing to sell it. They practically auction suitcase nukes on E-bay.
Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 6:13 AM EST
And let us not forget Iran. They hate us second only to Israel. Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 7:22 AM EST
So we may be trying to solve an implausible plot with logic. People with real technical knowledge are saying on various threads that it's IMPOSSIBLE to have ever gotten the materials in here for maybe 20 truck-sized bombs. We can't ignore the GROUND DETONATION of everything but the EMP. Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 7:25 AM EST
"It is all about Lords and Serfs. Taxes and corporate profits will go on regardless. Right now -- in real life, the Supreme Court is deciding whether or not individual citizens have the right to keep and bear arms or if the fourth ammendment only applies to state militias. Since there is a paper trail on legally obtained guns, the feds know who has guns and where they are. Thanks to the Patriot Act, laws that prevented unlawful searches and seizures are dead, so the feds can come into your home and take whatever they want any time they choose. The NSA has one job only -- to know where you are and what you are doing. They would know EVERYTHING about EVERYBODY in Jericho or anywhere else. They know about all of us -- Right now. Executive orders are already on the books enabling martial law to be declared for any reason at all and another "attack" would be the perfect excuse. All of those military bases that the gov closed over the past six years have been or are being refurbished as detention centers. Plus, Haliburton has that 365 million dollar detention center that they are building for the feds in Texas. The so-called torture bill that was signed into law recently enables the gov to declare any US citizen an enemy combatant, strip him of his citizenship and detain him forever without lawyer or trial. This does not apply only to terrorists. Political disendents are included. This stuff is for real and it is no joke. Throw yourself a little Google Party if you don't believe me. Those willing and able to work will be clothed, fed and sheltered. The products of their labor will be sold and the profits retained by the Lords. Those unable to work for the Lords will be exterminated. Can you say "New World Order"? A handful of people already run the world. The Serfs have never been able to overcome the Lords. History repeats itself and nothing changes because we'd rather sleep."
They DON'T know where all the guns are, trust me. Private gun sales aren't tracked. White woodsies like my late husband's family are LOADED with guns. Some of these are literally grandfathered--they've been retained for hunting purposes for generations. The white poor are far, FAR more armed up than the black poor. I've lived in both neighborhoods and I know. Hunting tends to be a "white thing." Even in states like New York with strict gun laws, they have no way of knowing which mess-up (I'd like to use another word here but I'd get thrown off) has a gun he's purchased privately or inherited.
Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 8:14 AM EST
In gun-control states, the thrust has been to take weapons out of the hands of those with records. Well, in poverty communities--white or black--pretty much EVERYBODY has a record becasue if you DON'T fight when challenged, your street cred goes downhill. The white guys can easily buy/barter/trade guns and have grandpappy's shotgun which nobody knows about. In any kind of insurgency, the imbalance between the guns in the white poverty community and the lack of them in the black poverty community scares the crap out of me. The good all boys who hunt mostly have bloody ARSENALS and all know how to shoot. The few Saturday night specials the hoodlums have are no match for 12-gauges and 30-30's--they're just not. If you get poverty community fighting against poverty community in a Jericho-like situation, the result is too awful to contemplate. Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 8:58 AM EST
I' m not sure we should ever LOSE the right to bear arms. Probably EVERYONE should have a gun in their home. The problem, again, is the imbalance in who is armed. If law enforcement succeeded in finding every old shotgun and taking it from every guy with a petty record for fighting, spousal abuse, D&D, etc. there's always going to be a few guys in the neighborhood who can legally own guns. These guys don't think of them as arsenals--they think of them as collections--but arsenals is what they would turn out to be in any state of anarchy or marshall law. Gun owners love guns and they buy as many as they can afford. Therefore, when things got rough, they'd be passing all the extras out, plus load, to everybody they knew who was unarmed. Many of these guys own between ten and 20 guns. The end result would be the same. One poverty community armed to the teeth and the other armed with almost nothing. Do you find this valuable?    
PostalGale
PostalGale
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 9:58 AM EST
On your "Gun Stance":

I am the decendent of country people. I know all about guns handed down in families and men who hunt, men who target shoot, men who collect, and men who buy, sell and trade just for the sake of buying, selling and trading.

There are guns in my home. Some are here for protection. Some are here just for collection. All are "legal" and have all of the proper paperwork and licenses. All were purchased from licensed dealers. Therefore, the ATF knows what's here and what has been bought and sold over the years. Gun records go back for decades - the feds know what's where. True, there are street thugs and who have acquired stolen guns and pass them amongst themselves, but here is where the gun control argument comes in. If any type of gun control were imposed, it is the "legal" guns that would be confiscated, not the ones the criminal element have in their possession.

And unless you pay cash at a place like Wal-mart, ammo purchases are in a database somewhere. Everytime you use a credit or debit card, THEY know everything you bought.

Years ago I worked in a gun store, so I know something about how buying guns legally works and something about the kind of people who purchase from legal venues. I concede that there are a good many good old boys out there "packed", but they are no match for the military and their weapons. In the case of martial law, those good old boys would be wiped out. In such an environment a couple of carefully thrown hand grenades would solve the problem of a standoff. A guy may own 20 guns, but he can only shoot one at a time. If things got really bad, the gloves would be off. Think back on the civil war and how that went. Sooner or later you run out of ammo or find yourself out-numbered. Keeping some redneck or hood out of your home or supply stash would be easy. Keeping law enforcement or the military away or stopping them from taking guns from citizens would be impossible.
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 10:07 AM EST
"On your "Gun Stance":

I am the decendent of country people. I know all about guns handed down in families and men who hunt, men who target shoot, men who collect, and men who buy, sell and trade just for the sake of buying, selling and trading.

There are guns in my home. Some are here for protection. Some are here just for collection. All are "legal" and have all of the proper paperwork and licenses. All were purchased from licensed dealers. Therefore, the ATF knows what's here and what has been bought and sold over the years. Gun records go back for decades - the feds know what's where. True, there are street thugs and who have acquired stolen guns and pass them amongst themselves, but here is where the gun control argument comes in. If any type of gun control were imposed, it is the "legal" guns that would be confiscated, not the ones the criminal element have in their possession.

And unless you pay cash at a place like Wal-mart, ammo purchases are in a database somewhere. Everytime you use a credit or debit card, THEY know everything you bought.

Years ago I worked in a gun store, so I know something about how buying guns legally works and something about the kind of people who purchase from legal venues. I concede that there are a good many good old boys out there "packed", but they are no match for the military and their weapons. In the case of martial law, those good old boys would be wiped out. In such an environment a couple of carefully thrown hand grenades would solve the problem of a standoff. A guy may own 20 guns, but he can only shoot one at a time. If things got really bad, the gloves would be off. Think back on the civil war and how that went. Sooner or later you run out of ammo or find yourself out-numbered. Keeping some redneck or hood out of your home or supply stash would be easy. Keeping law enforcement or the military away or stopping them from taking guns from citizens would be impossible."
You happen to be right! Gun control ALWAYS affects the legal guns. A lot of gun control is aimed at Saturday night specials because concealed weapons can be used in robberies, rapes, kidnappings, etc. Most gun-control states like NY require licensing to own them or purchase them OR buy ammo. But in a state of marshal law, I'm talking about the two poverty communities. The white poverty community hunts and buys as many rifles and shotguns as they can afford. Many of the guys with petty records STILL own guns. The guy with 20 guns would pass them out in the neighborhood. I know the mentality of these folks.
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 10:13 AM EST
Plus, most of these people pay cash for anything. Failing the proper I.D., the brother, cousin, or friend WITH the right I.D. buys the load. Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 10:17 AM EST
What frightens me to death is a scenario like Jericho where the feds aren't even around, nor is the military. You have the two poverty communities going paranoid and guess who is armed? I think things would get nasty. I wish it were not so but I think it would be. In the Jericho scenario, we are not looking at a localized disaster scenario where troops would come in. We are looking at a lawless situation where whoever is armed rules. Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 10:29 AM EST
PostalGale, I tend to be AGAINST gun control for just the reasons you've stated. I think only those who are certifiable or those who have used or threatened to use guns to commit crimes should be prevented from legally owning guns. I wouldn't worry too much because the NRA/gun lobby is just too big and the number of hunters who vote is too large. I don't think the government will be after your guns anytime soon. I'm just bringing up the vigilante thing BECAUSE of the number of guns that are owned, legally or otherwise. Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 10:54 AM EST
"On your "Gun Stance":

I am the decendent of country people. I know all about guns handed down in families and men who hunt, men who target shoot, men who collect, and men who buy, sell and trade just for the sake of buying, selling and trading.

There are guns in my home. Some are here for protection. Some are here just for collection. All are "legal" and have all of the proper paperwork and licenses. All were purchased from licensed dealers. Therefore, the ATF knows what's here and what has been bought and sold over the years. Gun records go back for decades - the feds know what's where. True, there are street thugs and who have acquired stolen guns and pass them amongst themselves, but here is where the gun control argument comes in. If any type of gun control were imposed, it is the "legal" guns that would be confiscated, not the ones the criminal element have in their possession.

And unless you pay cash at a place like Wal-mart, ammo purchases are in a database somewhere. Everytime you use a credit or debit card, THEY know everything you bought.

Years ago I worked in a gun store, so I know something about how buying guns legally works and something about the kind of people who purchase from legal venues. I concede that there are a good many good old boys out there "packed", but they are no match for the military and their weapons. In the case of martial law, those good old boys would be wiped out. In such an environment a couple of carefully thrown hand grenades would solve the problem of a standoff. A guy may own 20 guns, but he can only shoot one at a time. If things got really bad, the gloves would be off. Think back on the civil war and how that went. Sooner or later you run out of ammo or find yourself out-numbered. Keeping some redneck or hood out of your home or supply stash would be easy. Keeping law enforcement or the military away or stopping them from taking guns from citizens would be impossible."
The biggest argument AGAINST gun control is the number of vetted people who have gone the hell off--cops, ex-military, prison guards--and shot up the neighborhood or their families. I still say anybody who really wants to get a gun will find a way to buy one WITH gun control but I don't see us in the desperate situation you see us.
Do you find this valuable?    
JudyConklin
JudyConklin
RE: Edit of previous post--just woke up!
Dec 16 2006, 11:32 AM EST
The biggest reason I wouldn't worry too much is that the multinationals have FOUND their serfs in China and other third-world countries. The problem is that a tsunami of our jobs have fled overseas but hopefully the Dems will take care of that come January. Do you find this valuable?